tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10566794.post7415235065964202692..comments2023-10-25T02:02:54.753-07:00Comments on The Permanent Things: Finding Folk OrthodoxyBenedictushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11906513699896036425noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10566794.post-17089491324029104462009-03-31T10:21:00.000-07:002009-03-31T10:21:00.000-07:00"I don't know if the evil eye exists. Personally, ..."I don't know if the evil eye exists. Personally, I chose simply not to give much attention to the subject and in the future if there is a seemingly superstitious belief that those around me are practicing and advocating me to practice, I will seek council from my spiritual father."<BR/><BR/>I grew up in a neighborhood that had a multi-ethnic make-up, and my best friends were Greeks. I remember their mother having icons up in the home, and a few of those pendants against the evil eye. I for one don't know if the evil eye exists or not, but always appreciate someone praying for me to ward it off. Can't hurt, and I always appreciate prayer. Going to your spiritual father is the best course of action, certainly the right thing to do if confronted with a situation like this.<BR/><BR/>"I would rather belong to a church with some superstitious beliefs than one of sterile docttrines of a spiritual world, but without a spiritual life practiced by its people."<BR/><BR/>When the Son of Man returns in His glory, will He find faith in this world, or nice, clean-cut, sanitized people who give mental assent to abstract doctrines, but have no faith? Lord, have mercy!Benedictushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11906513699896036425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10566794.post-43150761647773238032009-03-31T09:31:00.000-07:002009-03-31T09:31:00.000-07:00Perhaps I am one of the "white middle class" conve...Perhaps I am one of the "white middle class" converts refered to by Vasquez, as I must admit I was rather startled during one liturgy when a Greek friend whispered to me, "I see the evil eye on you. Can I pray to make it go away." Or something of that sort. <BR/><BR/>Not even knowing what the evil eye was I think I replied, "I don't believe in the evil eye" but she proceeded in some sort of prayers that ended in her crying and saying, "That one took a lot of effort to make to go away" or something of that sort. <BR/><BR/>Quite a distraction from being able just to try to participate in the prayers and liturgy of the church! <BR/><BR/>And then what do you do when a Greek friend gives you one of these pendants to ward off the "evil eye?" I wanted to throw it away but since it was a gift I was convinced simply to store it away somewhere. <BR/><BR/>Yes, there is a lot of seemingly superstitious beliefs very alive today in the Orthodox Christian world. <BR/><BR/>I don't know if the evil eye exists. Personally, I chose simply not to give much attention to the subject and in the future if there is a seemingly superstitious belief that those around me are practicing and advocating me to practice, I will seek council from my spiritual father. <BR/><BR/>I would rather belong to a church with some superstitious beliefs than one of sterile docttrines of a spiritual world, but without a spiritual life practiced by its people. <BR/><BR/>And in the examples of the varies spirits that inhabited corpses (tympaniaios), it is helpful to remember the Greek tradition of removing the bones of the corpse into a smaller burial place so many years after they have deceased. When you start digging up corpses, of which we in the America don't do, it is only natural for new discoveries to be made.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10566794.post-42203161784897117672009-03-28T23:04:00.000-07:002009-03-28T23:04:00.000-07:00It would seem, then, that his point is something o...It would seem, then, that his point is something of an answer to the first question in that we cannot "sanitize" Orthodoxy, which is apparently a tendency of (American?) converts.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I'm pretty sure the people I know who really seem to be "sanitation engineers" (or might they be called SuperDox?) can be counted on one hand--which is just to say, it hasn't been my experience that converts attempt to stamp out these supposedly quixotic attempts to integrate the Faith with real life.ZSDPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07579328754658337516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10566794.post-52115653260991642002009-03-28T22:57:00.000-07:002009-03-28T22:57:00.000-07:00None of the above.I visit his blog a great deal, a...None of the above.<BR/><BR/>I visit his blog a great deal, and he is interested mostly in folk Catholicism. If he is trying to tell Orthodox converts to "chill," he is also doing the same with converts to Catholicism. He has little patience with Protestant converts to Catholicism who reduce the Catholic faith to a few abstract doctrines, and simply ignore issues of liturgy and tradition, including of the little "t" variety, which includes the folk traditions that his own Mexican grandmother passed on. This is part of a vibrant Catholic culture, and it sometimes lives in tension with the official hierarchy. Here's an article where he discusses this tat some length in the context of Italian folk Catholicism: http://arturovasquez.wordpress.com/2009/03/17/on-the-night-battles/<BR/><BR/>He is a very traditional Catholic himself, having studied at a Pius X seminary in Argentina. He spent some time in a Byzantine Catholic monastery as a monk.<BR/><BR/>I believe his point is that as<BR/><BR/>I think his point is that in the end, a vibrant Catholic culture (and for that matter a vibrant orthodox culture as well) is more than just abstract doctrines. It is also people-people trying to survive in an uncertain world, trying the best way they can to incorporate the faith as they understand it into their daily lives. Not everyone has the time or luxury to read Thomas Aquinas or Maximos the Confessor, and trying to stamp out every expression of folk Catholicism or Orthodoxy may give us a sanitized religion, but perhaps the trade-off is no faith. The Church includes everybody-the lofty hesychast theologian and monk, to the peasant peasant grandmother in the isladn of Chios saying prayers to protect her grandchildren from vampire demons like the gello. When it comes to the Church, what G.K. Chesterton says holds true: Here comes everybody.Benedictushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11906513699896036425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10566794.post-34240441231182918062009-03-28T22:46:00.000-07:002009-03-28T22:46:00.000-07:00Also, it would be really cool to have one of those...Also, it would be really cool to have one of those "Anti-Evil Eye" pendants.ZSDPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07579328754658337516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10566794.post-20829690751591085892009-03-28T22:32:00.000-07:002009-03-28T22:32:00.000-07:00In his more "provocative" piece, he comes across a...In his more "provocative" piece, he comes across as ignorant and uncharitable, but I at least can tell what his point is. This article, on the other hand, doesn't seem to have a particular thrust. Is he just trying to tell silly Orthodox converts that they need to chill out because "REAL ORTHODOXY" is fraught with at least as much weird stuff as anything else? Or is he trying to make the Orthodox look silly?ZSDPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07579328754658337516noreply@blogger.com